Media Miniseries | Advertising for Technical B2B Companies

In the Content Marketing, Engineered Media Miniseries, we’re learning from media experts about how working with external news outlets and trade publications fits into your content marketing strategy. Today, we're exploring advertising -- how to think about it, what goals are reasonable, and where to focus your spend. 

Content marketing typically involves writing and publishing content on your own site, and attracting visitors to that content. But -- external channels can still be extremely helpful to broaden your potential audience. By paying for advertising in trade publications, you can capture your audience in another channel and direct them back to your site.

The printed trade publications of the 80s and 90s were full of advertising content (if you were around then, I'm sure you remember seeing who secured that back cover ad each month). With the rise of digital content, those print ads gave way to clunky banner ads in the early oughts and for many of us, the advertising knowledge stops there. 

But, advertising has evolved a ton. In today's episode, Lee Douglas, an Account Director from Aspencore which owns publications like EE Times, EDN, embedded.com, and Planet Analog, will talk us through all of the available advertising options and how to find advertising opportunities that help you meet your marketing goals. The opportunities range from optimized banners to sponsored podcasts to even retargeted ads that your prospects can engage with when they're on a site other than yours or a publication's.

With a wide range of both products and the opportunity to hone in on a niche audience, advertising can easily become an accessible, effective channel to promote your company, products, and services.

Resources

• EE Times, EDN, embedded.com
• EE Times Designlines
• Get the Aspencore Media Guide
• Contact Lee Douglas
• Morgan Norris, host of the Media Miniseries
• TREW content development services

Transcript

The following transcript was created by an AI Bot which has yet to learn slang words and some technical terms. While it is no substitute for watching/listening to the episode, transcripts are handy for a quick scan. Enjoy!

Have you ever been interested in advertising for your company, but you don't know where to start. Well, today's episode is for you. Welcome to the Content Marketing, Engineered Media Miniseries, where we're learning from media experts on how working with external news outlets and trade publications fits into your content marketing strategy. In today's episode, we chat with Lee Douglas and we're covering advertising. Advertising has changed a ton in the past few decades, and many of us just don't know what's out there and what's available to companies as advertising options leads an account director at AspenCore, which is a collection of brands that communicates with engineers.

You probably know them from their publications like EE Times and EDN. In this episode, we'll talk about what types of products are available to companies to advertise and what kinds of marketing goals lend themselves to different products. And then, again, what the process looks like when you're looking working with an Advertiser. So one thing that I think is important to note is in this series, we talk to PR professionals who talk about placing getting content in publications that mentions your company and working with Editors up front and pitching.

And in that process, you're spending the time and the investment up front to get in touch with those Editors to get that earned media. Where here with advertising and the advertising discussion, you're spending that time and money to place content in front of the right people. I love that when we talk to Lee in this episode, you can tell that he's not trying to sell us a list of products. He's truly trying to understand his clients specific niche audience and then get them the right information at the right time in the right format and doing that through ad products.

On Content Marketing, Engineered we talk a lot about creating compelling content that converts technical audiences, and advertising is just a way that you can extend your reach to new contacts in your niche. So enjoy this episode. Near the end, we shares a little bit about budgets and kind of what you need to have in place before jumping into advertising. That's really helpful. And he also shares just how to get in touch if and when you're ready. Let's jump in.

Welcome to Content Marketing, Engineered. Your source for building trust and generating demand with technical content.

Hi and welcome to Content Marketing, Engineered as you may have noticed, I'm not Wendy Covey. I'm Morgan Norris, a senior brand and content strategist, and I'm hosting this Media Miniseries for Wendy to take a deep dive into technical B2B media from editorial to advertising to trade publications. We're going to figure out when and how to pursue media opportunities to build your brand, gain that leadership, engage with the technical community and promote your products and services. I hope you leave each episode of this miniseries ready to take action. Before we begin,

I'd like to give a brief shout out to our agency, TREW Marketing, through the full service agency located in Austin, Texas, serving highly technical companies. For more information about TREW, you can visit trewmarketing.com. All right, on with the podcast. Welcome everybody to another episode of Content Marketing Engineered. I'm joined by Lee Douglas from AspenCore, a media company that owns publications you probably know, like EE Times, EDN and embedded.com. These publications are a huge resource to our audience, and we're so excited to have you on Lee.

So thank you for joining us.

I'm glad to be here. I think this is going to be a lot of fun.

Yeah. So tell me, start by telling me to tell our audience a little bit about your career, what you've been through, how you got to where you are right now and then what it is that you do for asking for sure.

So my career, I guess I'm coming up on 27 years of experience outside of College. And I started out as an assistant media planner at a large global agency in Dallas, and I was on the Pepsi account and we didn't have computers on the desk. All of us assistant planners had to go to this lab kind of place with tiny little Macs and wait for somebody to get off the machine to go to our media plans. It was crazy. And we did things for Pepsi, worked for Pepsi, and some of the things we did was like outdoor newspaper.

There wasn't really Internet advertising at the time. Nothing broad. We did radio, TV, local sponsorships and things like that. So it was interesting. And I ended up going to another agency. And then after the second agency, I went into more of the marketing communications on big companies around the Dallas area.

Okay.

One of them was a technology company. It was called GTE. Now that's Bell Verizon. Sorry. I worked there for a few years, and then I ended up going into media sales. And I went to work for a company called YellowPages dot com during the dot com boot first or bubble. And I ended up staying there just for, like a year because I guess their business model wasn't that solid. But I went back to corporate marketing for a while. And then I ended up going to back into media sales after a good long stretch at Texas Instruments.

And then I ended up getting getting back into media sales and going to work for Askincourt, which at the time was UBM Electronics parent company. So from the types of things I did over the career, I think the stuff at the agency that we were doing as far as the outdoor and things like that, that's kind of by the wayside for the tech industry. I'm sure some people do them here and there.

We don't have a lot of B to B billboards going up.

It's just really not a thing. I guess the consumer audience and things like that. But when I was working at Ti. We basically would go into a big conference room, and this is just one group. It was the Analog group. And we met with the agency once a month. And this was about 2002, and the agency would come in. And Ti had committed to these certain placements in e times, print and EDN print embedded print. All the sites that no longer have print. And we basically go around the room and say, okay, who wants the back cover and who wants the inside front cover?

And we were just kind of the different Mark on. Managers would pick what they wanted and did fit their budget and things like that. And then we just kind of hash it all out. And it was a lot of money changing hands in there. And it was interesting because that's pretty much what we did up until probably. I think it was 2003 or so because the publishers didn't really have any digital offerings, right? So we were just doing the print thing because that's what there was.

And then they started to roll out these. They were static banner ads. A lot of them. We just ran on the home page and they were throwing them in as part of your print buying them. No one had in this industry. It really kind of figured out how to monetize it and get traffic to their site and things like that. So after a while, it's like, okay, we'll just do this little banner ad and see what happens and things like that. And one of the things that was working well at the time was eblast.

So I was getting ready to start promoting, like, a lunch and learn type workshop for one of the groups. And we had an eblast go out. And we had a regular online registration page for people to go to. And I remember the email went out at, like, 10:30 a.m.. So I got on the registration page and I started refreshing it and you could see it jumped. The number jumped. So it's like real time. You're sitting there comparing it to print. And you're like, my gosh look at this.

This is like immediate results that we can track. This is going to click. This is something else because in print, you just kind of had to believe, right? You have to believe that the people are getting to your page, in the magazine, to your ad. And really the only kind of metrics on print at the time was something called bingo cards. And that was a little perforated thing in the magazine that you pull out and it was a postcard and you would go in and you would check, I'm interested in Analog.

I'm interested in power. And you would check what you're interested in and you'd mail it in with your address and everything on it. And then you would get content mailed to you.

Okay.

From these bingo guards. And it's kind of crazy that that was kind of the response. And it took forever. And a lot of these would go back to the actual Advertiser so they would sponsor it. It would get mailed to them. And then they would fulfill some sort of booklet or something to brochures. Yeah. I talked to some reps who've been around a lot longer than I have in this space, and they would say people would come, they go on a sales call and they pull out a stack of bingo cards and go, look, this is how many I got.

That was kind of like, okay. So when we saw this digital thing.

That digital campaign, that kind of first taste of digital success you had was you were at Ti, and then you guys had a publication send out an eblast to their contacts.

Yes. Interesting. So it was like a third party kind of Mailer. And I actually ended up calling the marketing director and said, hey, come over to my office, check this out. We're sitting there refreshing. And I think we sat there for, like, an hour or 2 hours even.

Oh, my gosh.

Refresh. Once digital kind of came around like that, people started to say, everything is trackable is trackable. And that was a big deal. And it still is to this day.

That's great. Okay. So you brought up the two things, those static banner ads and then email blasts based on purchase lists. Those are, I think, the two things that are ingrained in the mind. They're ingrained in my mind when I think of, oh, how did we go from they were the most tangible. How do we go from an ad in a magazine, a printed magazine to digital content? Okay. So we put a banner. And then how do we go from list purchasing addresses and stuff we'll be go to purchasing email addresses and setting up.

So those are kind of the two products I think that we're generally familiar with. Talk to me about what's available now.

Okay. Yeah. We're definitely beyond the print days here. I guess our last publication was Electronic Products Magazine. And I want to say that we probably shuddered that one probably three years ago. But we still have electronicproducts. Com. But as far as products go, I mean, we've got everything now from sponsored podcast, sponsored video. One of the things that I'm seeing a lot of people take interest in is partner content, which is sponsored content. You'll see those on a lot of new sites and Yahoo or whatever. And you'll see content from our partner or sponsored content or something like that.

And basically on something like that, the client provides an article. It fits the format. Our editorial team has to approve it. So it's not just an advertising fluff piece. This is still directed to the engineering audience, and we want it to be technical. It just can't be a big marketing push. So we've got things like that that I see pretty good results for and we've got, like I said, sponsored videos, and we've got the number of things that we have. It's almost overwhelming. Sometimes we have, like, white paper sponsorships where somebody can provide white papers.

We promote them to the audience that they're looking to go to. They basically fill out a form and say, I'm interested in analog engineers or whatever IoT or something like that. So they specify it. We can also do webinars, and we promote it the same way with kind of a list that they check off here's, who I want to be at this webinar.

So in those cases, a sponsored white paper or a sponsored webinar, that's something that a company creates and then pays to place on your site. Is that correct?

Well, when it comes to the content, like an article or a white paper, that's correct. Webinar. We actually do the production of it. They provide the speaker. So they are providing the slide deck and the presenter and things like that. So, yes, they provide that. And then we have all the production and marketing services to back it up.

Okay. And then for things like a white paper, then do your readers download that and then did the company get that Reader's contact information or how does that work?

Yeah, that's correct. So basically, we'll post them on our site. It's called Tech Online. It's Learning educational arm of E Times and Et on all of our sites. Really. And what we do is if you want to download that paper, you have to log in if you're already registered or you have to create a profile. So that way you get the download and that information goes over to the sponsor. And there's all the terms and conditions and stuff like, sure, you could get contacted by the sponsor kind of thing.

So we're not trying to spam anyone, but if they're interested in this paper, they're probably going to be interested in receiving more content or more information from that sponsor.

Right. I think it's really interesting because the concept is exactly the same as when you're looking at content marketing on your site. But in this through companies like you guys, we can further promote those white papers and that content to new audiences. Right. So how do we attract new audiences over time? It's going to be through organic search. But how do we boost that? And so I think a lot of those products just seem like such a good fit for a technical audience. You mentioned podcast sponsorships.

I'm interested in what does that look like?

Well, we've got several different topics. There's one on Embedded, one on AI, and we've got one on Power. There's one more that's escaping me right now. But basically, we have Editors that run these podcasts, and they do them on a certain frequency, depending on which one. So they're building up this audience, right. Editorial content. And they're interviewing people sometimes to see it's kind of like when they interview somebody for a story only they're doing any kind of a podcast kind of format. And then so what we've done also is we've come up with sponsored podcast where we can have a conversation with the editor and the client, and then they can come in and they can actually sponsor the content that we're promoting.

And sometimes they might have somebody from their company that is interviewed or as part of it participates in it. But it all says sponsored by it's just like a sponsored format. But those are growing, especially now, since the podcast has been out for a while and they've got a good cadence to them. We're seeing more and more people signing up and listening to them. So once you get that kind of base audience and you continue to grow it, that's when people start to become interested in sponsoring.

Yeah, for sure to be able to consume that information even while you're on the go or is so helpful to people, we're seeing podcasts just continue to grow that audio content and video content as well. So glad to hear that. That's a key piece. So tell me about with these different products. How do different types of marketing goals tie to different products? So, for example, I know there's not just a prescribed here's a package, do these four kind of ad related activities, but what does it look like to have some sort of goals and then translate those into appropriate products?

Right. So I think everybody that I work with all my peers who are in sales, we're consultative salespeople. We're not trying to force the product of the month on somebody that doesn't fit their objectives. So really, it varies by campaign by Advertiser. If it's an Advertiser that has been advertising since the print days are for 50 years, and then they're online and they're doing a consistent campaign year round, their kind of campaign is going to differ from somebody who's maybe a startup. If they're doing a white paper program or a webinar, especially if it's on a topic that's very trendy, like IoT or electric vehicles, they're going to see that kind of bump over somebody who's maybe a startup or something like that.

So I think the important thing is like you said, you have to have goals for the campaign, whether it's saying they're doing branding. So don't expect a lot of clicks on branding, but you get name out there. Sometimes some of the startups will use it to just kind of soften the market, get people accustomed to seeing their brand. Okay. Now we'll do a white paper. So I think it's important just to understand what the product is that they're trying to promote who is a fit on our side as far as audience and make sure that you have objectives.

I mean, sometimes people just go, we want to run some ads. Well, why what are we trying to do. We're trying to drive traffic to your site. We're trying to get them to download something. What kind of offer do you have? Do you have free shipping or discount? There are so many different ways to go, but I think it's important to start off with the very basic thing. It's like, what is our objective? What are we trying to do? And sometimes I think people just kind of fly right over.

That. Right.

Sure.

Because it's easy. You get excited and you want to do something. But it's like, let's define what we're trying to accomplish here.

Yeah. And I'm putting you on the spot. But are there any numbers that you can share to give people an idea of the type of audience that you reach?

Yeah. We've got so many sites. I mean, when it comes to, like, EE and EDM and electronic products, EE Web, I mean, I could go on Power electronic news. We've got so many sites. It really varies by site. Like EE Times is kind of a blend of high level executive news. Then we have something called the design lines that are focused on specific topics, like Power. And those can be industry news. They can be technical articles. So EE Times has a pretty good mix. E. Dn. Has a very similar thing.

But when you think of EDN, like, back in the print day, it was kind of for the engineer, the hands on person who's designing or trying to solve problems, that kind of thing. So the sites still kind of follow that to a certain extent, because once upon a time, the EDM and E Times were competitors. So they were the kind of the two big print publications back in the 90s and probably 80s, probably. So we've tried to keep it where you've got the kind of executive content on E Times and technical content on EDM.

But like I said, there is technical content on EE Times, too. So as far as how we direct people to different sites, that's kind of where we go on. Right. It's like who's the audience you're trying to reach. So back to the question. It's really difficult to kind of give a range of metrics because there's so many variables, right. It's like just an Advertiser that was advertising for 40 years in print. And now they do digital, and they do a big campaign throughout twelve months of the year.

Are they in an industry that's really hot, like IoT, electric vehicles, power. There's so many variables. It's really hard to say. Oh, well, the average is this because it does vary. If you've got a startup kind of company, maybe it's just branding. Maybe they're starting off with the branding. You're not going to see a big click through rate for branding. I mean, it doesn't matter who you are. If it's just a brand and there's no real call to action, then it's going to be tough to get clicks and I think when it comes to call to action, I think that needs to be very clear, because it seems like over the years, things kind of go in and out of being in fashion or whatever you want to call it.

And somehow it seems like some advertisers have stepped away from a strong call to action. There used to be what we called when I was at Ti Specmanship, where it's basically the world's lowest power microcontroller or the most precise amplifier or whatever it was, right. World's lowest best performance, that kind of thing. But we're not seeing the specmanship anymore. And I'm not saying that's the only way to do it, but a call to action give them a reason to click, right? I mean, maybe it's free shipping or you got a discount on your part or development tool or something like that.

Make sure that's in there. And it sounds obvious. But you don't always see that anymore.

Yeah. No, that's a great point. And you had mentioned earlier when we were chatting, too. I wanted you to talk about just this idea of test campaigns and testing different things out. Talk to us a little bit about that, I think, especially for people who are new to the world of advertising or considering it the fact that you've got options and you're willing it's not so rigid. I think so. Talk to us about test campaigns.

Yeah. I'm a big fan, and I always recommend it to people, especially people who are just maybe starting out with us. But I'm going to be honest, if your budget is $1,000, we probably don't want to split that up. You know what I mean? But if you've got a decent size budget and depending on what you want to do, like, if it's say you want to run a banner ad campaign, we have no issue with doing, like, a couple of creatives to test. Right. So we can put an A.

B. Creative. It's like this one offers this. This one offers that and test it for a month and see which one performs better. You can test, like, the banner design. It's like, okay, this one has our logo on the first frame, and this one has it on the second frame. There's things like that that are easy for us to do, and I highly recommend them because it's not just about the banners, right? I mean, it's about what are you offering and just rotate that in and out.

Right. I might get one ad, and you might get a different app, and then at the end of the month, we kind of take a look, and sometimes it's a tie or it's close enough where it's like, okay, which one do you prefer or do you want to just keep rotating them? So I'm a huge fan of the test campaigns, as long as you have a decent budget.

Sure.

Because we just don't want to split it so fine on a smaller budget. That it just to spread out.

Yeah. You want to lose impact across the board.

Exactly.

Okay. That's great. And I think that really lowers the barrier. Just take some of the fear out of, like, set it and forget it.

Right.

Kind of opportunity. So tell me about that leads a little bit into just what it looks like to work with the publication on opportunities like this. So again, if somebody is new to this space of advertising, what does it look like to just kind of dip your toe in the water? And then what does it look like to have a healthy advertising campaign over time as well?

Yeah. I've worked in different industries and sales, too. And it's been pretty good as far as consultative reps, we really kind of go down the road of okay. So what are we trying to accomplish and what kind of products work? And then some companies have, like, an internal creative Department or a design Department. Some people use agencies like you all some just maybe just have a buddy who has banners or whatever. There's a lot of different ways how we get the materials and how we get the campaigns up and running.

As far as back in the print days, it would be okay. Four to six weeks before publication prints. We'd have to have your materials in house.

Right.

Well, now, since everything is digital, we typically ask for, like, banners. For instance, we want about a week to get the materials and to test them, make sure there's no issues. Usually there's not. But we don't want to just throw something up in a rush and it's not work or whatever.

Yeah.

But we can usually get them up in a few days. But the thing that you have to remember is if it's a hot topic, if you're going to go on the IoT design line and you want to get some impressions and you want to start running next week, chances are we're sold out.

Yeah. Okay. Good point.

Yes. If it's a hot topic, plan ahead, because the closer you get to that date, the less inventory we're going to have. And that's probably it's TREW for all publishers, right?

Yeah. So that's a good point. So if you've got an event, if somebody has an event they're trying to promote or a product that has a launch date that they want something specific for, you need to get that on the calendar early to make sure you get the space you want in the right kind of eyeballs, that's a great point.

And if something were to change, there are ways to just push that out. Like, if the speaker is not going to be able to do that date now and it's going to be two weeks from then, we can push it out because it's digital. It's not like it's going to print. And it's like, oh, we printed the wrong date. This is all very flexible. But again, I know there's sometimes where things just come up and you don't know that we need to get this message out quickly or whatever.

But if you're planning a big product launch or something, a big event, just try to think three months out, six months out, the longer out you are, the more he's going to be available.

Okay. And in your experience, is there anything that you can talk to that's worked really well that you've just seen strong results from or good client satisfaction from and then things that just don't work. Well, whether that's the topic or the type of ad somebody's doing or if people have unrealistic expectations, is there anything we can do to kind of help set people up for success if they're entering into ad?

Yes. Honestly, I think it really comes down to working with your rep. I know my peers at Aspencourt, and most of the people in this particular space are going to tell you that's not really our strength, or we don't have a lot in this area. I mean, I had a rep from another publication that was contacted by a client we both work with. And they said, Well, I'm going to be honest with you. I think that's better suited for ASPENCORE.

Yeah.

In the end, we're not trying to just take your wallet and run away for a month long campaign. We want long term relationships. So for the most part, I think people who in ad sales rep roles, they're trying to make sure that this is successful from the start.

Right.

And build on it from there. Build this relationship where you're kind of the go to person, the person that's trusted and that kind of thing because I think the consultative selling is something that people appreciate. I don't want the product of the month. It's like, here do this, do that. But as far as what I've seen working lately, that partner content seems to be a big hit. Go ahead.

I love that just concept because I think our audience in general is inclined to create really high quality technical content and build leads that way. And often though, you're limited to one organic search and to your existing audience. And so just the way that you can use a reputable platform like you guys have to get more eyeballs on that content. And those eyeballs are the people that you want. Like you said, let's segment these and find the right design line. And I love that the fact that you're mentioning all these publications that you guys have the design lines, all the different sites.

And so if I'm working with you, I can say here's what we're trying to achieve, and here's the type of audience we're going after. And then you can even recommend the site that that goes on or the platform within Aspencourt. There are so many options. And so that feels really huge just from a segmenting perspective. We know if we're not just going to shout our message from the rooftops and hope the people listen, we would like to target those people specifically. And so I think getting a boost from using advertising products can be amazing.

Right. I think one of the other things that I've seen working well lately, too, is our audience extension programs, which we will actually run ads outside of the Aspen Court network. So we'll basically go on there's a form to fill out here's who I'm trying to target and that thing. And it goes across a multitude of different sites. Some of them are technology diverge and things like that are things that technical people will read, maybe on their off time or lunch or whatever. And it could be on Yahoo Sports.

So we have this targeting capability with these partners where we can run these ads at a very low cost on these other sites. And that's a good way to supplement your campaign.

That's a great point. Is that, like, kind of an add on to something that somebody's already been doing with you? Yeah.

I mean, you can do it stand alone, but usually it's something that I just say, look, you're going to get X 100,000 of impressions on our network targeting the same types of people, right? For a pretty low cost. Right. It's $1,500 start up, and you're going to get 100,000 impressions or more.

Yes.

Depending on the selection. And it's very cost effective. And it's a really good way to just kind of extend your reach. And I always recommend if you're going to do that, you should run stuff on our site, too. If they're on our site and then they leave and it's like they're on another saw that ad.

Right.

I didn't click on it then, but I'm going to click on it now.

We want to capture them when they're most in their element of looking for information, which is what they're doing when they're on your site.

Exactly.

Yeah. Okay. Oh, this is great. I love this one more question. What about do like, editorial calendars and things like that bleed into advertising, or is it more that you've got these kind of specific sites for different types of audiences?

Editorial calendars have been a hard thing to do after print, but I haven't mentioned we do still have a print publication in Europe. It's E Times Europe, and then we have them in Asia, too. We have EE Times, China, E Times, Taiwan. So we've got print publications in other parts of the world, and they also have digital. But as far as editorial calendars, we have some now that are in our newest media guide. But keep in mind, since it's digital, I mean, there can be a calendar, but they're not as rigid any.

Okay. If there's some big autonomous driving or AI story that breaks, they're not going to look at it and go, oh, that's not the calendar this month. That was last month, so too bad. I mean, they're going to cover the news, right? They're going to cover hot topics, but there are some sort of guidelines, but in no way what I say they're rigid plan your campaign around this. It's more of if you're interested in IoT, let's target that on our sites. There are different ways to do that, and it doesn't really matter if it's on the editorial calendar that month or not.

It's a good guideline. They're good to have. But I wouldn't plan an annual campaign around them.

Yes. Okay. So lastly, if somebody listens to this and they say, I think we need to fit ads into our overall plans, and they don't have anybody that they work with for other marketing staff to reach out to you, what do they do? And what do they need to have? Like, what Ducks do they need to have in a row before they call you? What are the questions you're going to ask? What do you need to have answers, too? So that you can get that conversation going?

They can figure out what's right for budget and what they need to do.

Yeah, sure. That's pretty standard stuff. So budget is always great. But you do have some people, especially that are new. They don't want to necessarily share the budget. So maybe at least it's very helpful for a rep. If you get a rank right. It's like between $5,000. Like if I get that $5,000 or ten to 20 or 50, whatever it is, I will put together different levels, right. Like you did this one. This is what you would get if you get this one, you would get. And then kind of the more you spend, you'll see different price breaks.

There's value in that as far as what else we need. Do you have a creative shop that you work with? Is this something that you can build on your own? Do you need assistance with banner development or content development? Things like that, and we can point them in the right direction.

Yes.

We don't need a ton of information, but we need to know who's your target audience. What are you trying to accomplish? Back to the kind of the call to action and what are your expectations? Because it's important for everyone to kind of agree up front. That here's what we're trying to accomplish.

Definitely how we're going to do it.

Because there's a lot of different ways to kind of attack these different programs, and some of it might be restricted by budget. Some of it might be restricted by audience. Maybe we don't have that particular good, strong audience. We typically do because we have so many brands and so many different ways to reach these audiences. But I can't stress enough how important it is just to kind of get aligned from the start, right?

Yeah. That's great. So this is people's permission to reach out to you. Can they reach out to you directly or on your site.

Okay. Yeah, there is. If they go to ASPENCORE. Com, there's a contact us or they could reach out to me. And if I'm not the person who covers that territory, I can point them in the right direction.

Perfect. Great. We will include your information with this. I think that's all the questions I have. This is excellent. So thank you so much for joining us today.

Absolutely. I appreciate it. It's fun to kind of break away and do something different for part of it, it's always nice.

Yeah, it is. It's great for everybody to learn this side of the business, too. And just advertising is an opportunity. So I'm glad for our audience. Thank you.

Yeah. No problem. Thanks for having me.

Thank you for joining me today on Content Marketing. Engineered for show notes, including links to any resources we talked about. Visit TREWmarketing. Compodcast. While you're there, you can subscribe to our blog and newsletter. And we've also got books that Wendy authored called Content Marketing Engineered. It's about building and executing an end to end content marketing plan. I would also love your reviews on this podcast. So when you get a chance, subscribe rate and review Content Marketing engineered on your favorite podcast subscription platform. Thanks again. Have a great day.